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Do we want "Mini-Suits"?

Should we leave "Mini-Suits" active?
Yes 29%  29%  [ 9 ]
No 71%  71%  [ 22 ]
Total votes : 31

Do we want "Mini-Suits"?
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Post Re: Do we want "Mini-Suits"?
Well again, I think it's simply just a matter of whether or not the armor/buff system is adjusted so that it works properly as intended.

With a proper working armor system, where armor diversity comes naturally as a result of players wearing different types of armor for different tasks, then there should be no mini suits.

With our current armor system, where everyone will eventually wind up in comp, overly buffed, then we might as well stick with mini suits just to keep things mixed up a bit.

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Sat Aug 22, 2009 8:53 pm
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Post Re: Do we want "Mini-Suits"?
Vader974 wrote:
If we decide to get rid of "Mini-Suits", nobody said Khargash still can't wear his armor the way he wants. He can still wear his Armor + Clothing ensamble, he just wouldn't be as protected as someone wearing full armor.


Clearly this defeats the point. Very few people are going to wilfully choose to be less protected!

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Mon Aug 24, 2009 1:32 am
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Post Re: Do we want "Mini-Suits"?
when i played the nge trial i remember seeing an option allowing you to equip backpacks without having them actually showing on your back.

is it possible to do the same thing with armour, this would probably make people hide their armour so people think theyre weaker than they really are, but this is the best alternative i can think of.

im against mini-suits myself.

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Mon Aug 24, 2009 2:36 am
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Post Re: Do we want "Mini-Suits"?
im against mini suits too. if you want the full protection of your armor you should have to wear the whole suit. i think its pretty straight forward, theres nothing saying you cant only wear boots and gloves and whatever else with your clothes for a cool looking outfit. you just wont be fully protected

i think if we add more armor styles for people they will be able to have more choice. i personally wore peices of different armor to get the look i wanted. i wasnt as protected if i wore full composite. but i looked pretty cool. :D i also rarely wore a helmet unless i was actively fighting.

but i still say if you want full protection you should need a full suit.

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Mon Aug 24, 2009 5:50 am
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Post Re: Do we want "Mini-Suits"?
khargash wrote:
Vader974 wrote:
If we decide to get rid of "Mini-Suits", nobody said Khargash still can't wear his armor the way he wants. He can still wear his Armor + Clothing ensamble, he just wouldn't be as protected as someone wearing full armor.


Clearly this defeats the point. Very few people are going to wilfully choose to be less protected!

Well the only argument you brought up for keeping "mini-suits" active was the visual diversity issue, so that is what I was addressing. If you had said, "I wanna keep mini-suits active because I want to continue to exploit a flawed mechanic of the game so I can still be as protected as a full suit of armor, while not suffering an additional encumbrance penalty.", then I would have addressed that.

Jordy wrote:
Well again, I think it's simply just a matter of whether or not the armor/buff system is adjusted so that it works properly as intended.

With a proper working armor system, where armor diversity comes naturally as a result of players wearing different types of armor for different tasks, then there should be no mini suits.

With our current armor system, where everyone will eventually wind up in comp, overly buffed, then we might as well stick with mini suits just to keep things mixed up a bit.

I think you are missing the main issue. The issue is not the amount of diversity available by whatever armor equalization system we come up with. The issue is, if mini-suits are left in, then those players who like the looks and want to wear a full suit of armor will still suffer an encumbrance penalty that those wearing a mini-suit do not suffer, while receiving equal amount of protection.

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Mon Aug 24, 2009 11:15 am
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Post Re: Do we want "Mini-Suits"?
Vader974 wrote:
I think you are missing the main issue. The issue is not the amount of diversity available by whatever armor equalization system we come up with. The issue is, if mini-suits are left in, then those players who like the looks and want to wear a full suit of armor will still suffer an encumbrance penalty that those wearing a mini-suit do not suffer, while receiving equal amount of protection.


I'm not sure I follow. On one hand you say the issue is not about armor diversity, and on the other hand you say that players who want the look of a full suit of armor will be penalized. Sounds like an appearance discussion to me.

Don't get me wrong, I would personally favor a much more tightened down armor system, where all pieces of armor had to be worn in order to receive full protection. This along with tweaks to the crazy buff system would force players to choose light armor/low encumbrance or heavy armor/high encumbrance, the way it was supposed to be.

It just seems to me that since everyone will be wearing composite anyway, until we decide on some kind of fix, the issue mainly lies in do we penalize those who "want the look" of a full set of armor? Since 95 percent of combat toons will probably be wearing comp, I'd personally just rather see the mini suits in place as opposed to forcing everyone to "clone it" by wearing full suits.

Sure this makes the bracers and leggings pointless, but when you think about it, the whole encumbrance system is kind of pointless anyway so long as we keep overpowered nonsense buffs in play.

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Mon Aug 24, 2009 11:31 am
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Post Re: Do we want "Mini-Suits"?
Jordy wrote:
I'm not sure I follow. On one hand you say the issue is not about armor diversity, and on the other hand you say that players who want the look of a full suit of armor will be penalized. Sounds like an appearance discussion to me.


Let me try and clear things up then....

The mechanics of armor and mini-suits
This is pretty layman's terms to explain what's going on. The attack target is broken into nine parts, each part having a number, Head=1, Body=2, Legs=3, Feet=4, Right Bicep=5, Left Bicep=6, Right Bracer=7, Left Bracer=8, Hands=9. When an attack is made, a random number 1-9 is generated and that is the part of the target's body that is hit, unless a body part specific attack is made, ie. Mind Hit or Action Hit. With mini-suits active any attack roll 3-4 is simply seen as a "Leg Hit", as long as the target is wearing Boots it is seen as protected. Any attack roll 5-9 is simply seen as an "Arm Hit", as long as the target is wearing Gloves it is seen as protected. This way the player does not need to wear Biceps, Bracers or Leggings to receive complete armor protection and they do not suffer a 200-600 pool point encumbrance.

Any armor equalization system the server decides to go with, will have 0 effect on mini-suits if they are left active. Creating various equal armor types will still be subject to the mini-suit system.

Getting rid of the "Uber Buff" system only exagerates the problem, because then losing 200-600 pool points becomes even more important.

There are two arguments raised for the need to keep the use of mini-suits.

1. Game Exploit
The desire for the player to continue to exploit a flawed game mechanic in order to maintain full armor protection without suffering a 200-600 pool point encumbrance.
This seems a pretty flimsy pathetic argument to me.

2. Appearance Diversity
The desire for the player to mix and match armor and clothing in order to create a "custom" look for their character without the penalty of less armor protection.
If this is an honest, legitimate argument, then why should a player who chooses the "custom" look of full armor need to suffer a 200-600 pool point encumbrance when a player not wearing full armor does not suffer the penalty, but still receives equal protection?

I am all about compromise, I would rather see a system that can utilize the abiltiy to create "custom" looks to armor as long as one group does not get all the benefits without any penalties. I would rather see both sides be happy then one side be happy and the other side not. However, I have not been able to come up with a solution. Which is why I posted to see if someone else could come up with one.

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Mon Aug 24, 2009 3:13 pm
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Post Re: Do we want "Mini-Suits"?
This is the first I heard about the minisuit. What about for species that couldn't wear boots or gloves such as Trandos? Did their pants and bracers give them the protection that others got from boots and gloves?

It appears pretty obvious to me that minisuits were a bug and while this one had some interesting complications bugs that SWG didn't originally fix we should. For instance I know that clothes that said they helped with arch experimentation or assembly didn't due to a bug. I'm hoping that gets fixed.

I did however hear about the armor hole that existed on your back if you wore a backpack, but I believed that eventually got fixed, but I think it might have been in the post CU pre NGE timeframe.

And be careful with these diversity of armor arguments they sound as if you are in favor of the CU.

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Mon Aug 24, 2009 8:01 pm
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Post Re: Do we want "Mini-Suits"?
It's okay, I think if you look at my original post in this thread you'll see I basically agree with you.

Jordy wrote:
I'd say if the armor stays basically the same, then we should leave mini-suits for the points Khargash mentioned, i.e. it allows for some more diverse appearances.

If we restructure the armor system at all, then we should bring back full suits.


If we fix armor at all to balance it, mini suits should be removed, as it obviously penalizes, and makes wearing of full suits unnecessary.

If we leave the armor system alone for awhile as it was during patch 14, then we might as well leave the mini suit issue alone for diversity issues. If and when we balance the armor, I would imagine the mini suit issue would be resolved as well for the sake of balancing.

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Mon Aug 24, 2009 9:43 pm
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Post Re: Do we want "Mini-Suits"?
Issirxo wrote:
And be careful with these diversity of armor arguments they sound as if you are in favor of the CU.


Ah, but in my opinion, this was the one thing the CU actually got right. In fact, if there had not been that stupid class-specific bug where you had to be a certain combat profession to use certain armor types, I would have to say the CU combat system was great.

There, I said it. Burn me at the stake if you want.


Tue Aug 25, 2009 2:22 am
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Post Re: Do we want "Mini-Suits"?
Jordy wrote:
If we leave the armor system alone for awhile as it was during patch 14, then we might as well leave the mini suit issue alone for diversity issues. If and when we balance the armor, I would imagine the mini suit issue would be resolved as well for the sake of balancing.



That seems like a fair suggestion!

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Tue Aug 25, 2009 2:35 am
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Post Re: Do we want "Mini-Suits"?
you'll probably find that this issue will be fixxed Via the Core development team.. mostly because it was considered a bug.

this all depends on their coding.

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