I still can't believe no other MMO's have used a similar model for the way crafting worked in SWG. It was so well conceived. For me, crafting was the main reason the game owned so much. I am still in awe of how we were able to make an infinite amount of truly unique items (unless from a factory schematic). Because of this, the good crafters on the server carved themselves a name and, well, became famous for making uber weapons/armour, etc..

I am still staggered by the lunacy which SOE displayed to 'make the game better' by deleting all these magnificent features. Way to dumb down a game huh? The sure-fire way to kill any economy would be to take away 90% of the tools people used to be able to use to make items and therefore, a rich and diverse player-driven economy.

My dad is a business management consultant. I told him about what SOE did. He said it sounded like a classic case of a proposed business model gone wrong because the 'blinkers' had been put up on the guys in charge. Apparently many businesses who want to make a large change and usually have good intentions, get a little bit lost in the process and lose sight of what their original mission was. When this happens, it is easy for human emotions to get in the way when things start to go wrong, ie, pride. In the case of SOE, they probably felt they had spent so much money on making the changes that they weren't prepared to admit they'd made mistakes. Not only that, they weren't prepared to have contingencies if in fact it didn't work (classic mistake). If a business has an aim which requeires change, this aim will usually stay the same during the process but the way in which you reach that aim may change several times. This is another enormous error on the part of SOE. They stuck to their guns in how they were to achieve the aim, and in doing so, alienated 90% of their customer base.

Anyway, back on track Why have no other MMO's taken the crafting model from SWG and added it to their own? We all know the crafting in WoW is a joke. I currently play Eve Online and even though the economy is seriously good, there is still only a fraction of the things you can do with crafting. Having stats on minerals and gasses was a truly amazing idea. Real thinking out of the box stuff. Just that would have created a vast amount of different items but they took it futher by taking item parts, character abilities, city type, crafting station stats, attachments and other variables into account.

I dream of a day when i can use these features again in the EMU but i also dream of a day when other companies realise the true potential of such a model for crafting. It boggles the mind how such a fundamentally beautiful concept can be overlooked by the developers of new games.

I just hope the new Star Wars MMO will include this diversity of item creation. I have a bad feeling that they won't even include player cities, though...

I think it's because it was so complicated. I mean, even to make simple items you had to understand the concepts behind schematics, resource quality, resource stat application, experimentation.

For advanced crafting (i.e. making the best armour possible) the equations on how to experiment practically took a maths degree to understand.

Your WoW-generation, lowest-common-denominator gamer doesn't have the patience for this kind of thing.

But of course this is one of the things that makes SWG unique. I don't believe that we'll ever see another MMO where crafting is as complex as it was/will be on SWG.

QFT!!!


My first reaction to the subject of this post was "pfff 'cause they SUCK". but Khargash is totally right....




Having such a comprehensive crafting system means having a totally different kind of game, one in which some players dedicate themselves to crafting. it doesn't really fit in with the quest-kill-rinse-repeat model. SWTOR seems like a play to the WoW genre... I'd be surprised if they had some kind of dynamic crafting system. Pleasantly surprised, but surprised. I miss crafting

I really agree with all of the posters here, but this paragraph is 100%-right-on. The quest/loot system of current MMOs is just stale in my book, even though it seems like every new game follows this pattern.

I absolutely loved the PvP in SWG. But, for as much as I loved some of the unique aspects of PvP, it wasn't that supremely different from what can be found in a few other games out there.

What really set SWG apart from me was the economy, and I think it's easy to overlook the huge impact the economy had on the game. I mean, it was a completely player controlled system. If you were a combat player, you absolutely could not rely on yourself. It wasn't just a mindless loot-o-rama, you had to buy good gear from crafters. And I think the economy made PvE so much more interesting. You had to go out and hunt the particular monsters or animals that were most in demand by the crafters. Your hunting itinerary had to be changed regularly with the shifting economic demand, and that made for a more varied and enjoyable PvE experience.

Plus, as any crafter will tell you, crafting was its own form of PvP itself. It wasn't the type of PvP with vibro knucklers and explosions, but a more subtle kind. As a resource merchant on Bloodfin, it was me against all the other resource merchants out there. Before the vendor search feature, it was all about getting a prime location (aka outside Coronet) and advertising effectively. I had to compete with everyone else's prices, but still maintain an acceptable profit margin. I needed to play the bulk power dealers off against each other to get the best possible price. And the experience was similar when I became an artisan and chef crafter.

Really, the unique crafting system and player controlled economy were what made SWG the game that it was.

We won't be seeing a complicated crafting system for awhile.

On a side note, what kind of crafting system will Darkfall have?

When I asked in a the newb section a mod told me it would be closer to SWG than to WoW, but that was over a year ago so that could have changed or he could have been wrong to begin with. But it looks like it will be at least somewhat more complex than in WoW due to the fact that nearly every item is player craftable.

I actually find that quite upsetting. The fact that games makers feel they have to make a game more simple because stupid people make up the majority of the demographic...

I hate my intelligence being insulted. I want a game which is TOUGH. I want a game where survival of the fittest is the way of the world. This is the reason i currently play Eve Online. It has a very steep learning curve. This consequently pushes out all the WoW nubs and just leaves quality, level-headed players who enjoy a challenge. Having said that, reading comments in the newbie channel in Eve is usually hilarious. Amongst the legitimate questions for help, there is usually comments like:

"can someone give me 4million plxplx? I don't know how to drive my ship.."
"No. Make your own cash!"
"I hate this game. I actually have to learn something! I'm going back to wow where Blizzard can hold my hand.."

true true.. other things I haven't seen in other MMOs that made preCU so great:

32+ unique professions
skill based vs levels
mix/match templates
100% player driven economy
loot system to benefit ^^^
both ground and space based game
player cities/houses
CANTINAS

there's more smaller things I probly forgot to mention... but even this list plus craftin' is huge!

The beard would surely chafe.

The fact that there is soooo many WOW players is as you said you don't need intelligence to play it. And you can pretty much complete the game in 30days. I think that we can look at it in the way that those that play wow=reatard and SWG=gamer. SWG offers a competion, its not easy to become master in your profession it takes work and dedication. Thats what we love about SWG its a real mans/womens game!!!!

I couldn't agree with you guys/gals more. What made SWG so special was that it wasn't mindless. You really had to research/learn to get to the top of your chosen profession. And there were so many professions to choose from. Hopefully we'll all be playing it again soon.....

thats exactly right. i usually dont like threads where everyone just agrees with each and pat each others asses.. but its true.

WOW is so popular because anyone raised on linear console games and the like can just pick it up and start playing and be viable in the world at level on day one without much help. you could never be able to play end game quests and dungeons or PVP right off the bat with youre top level friends. but its a simple matter of grinding your ass off doing quests to catch up with your friends, then you were the same as them.. bored.. because you busted your hump getting through the entire game to be the same level.

what made SWG so great was that when you started out as a noob you really were a noob and needed ALOT of help from other players in order to learn what the hell you were doing. it was that way in my case anyway. it was a LONG time before i learned how to be self sufficient, i relied on other player kindness for unasked for donations of money, cheap clothing, and CDEF weapons on the first day. i couldnt believe so many people would help out a fresh faced noob to the world without me having to beg and beg. (later of course alot of noobs did have to beg, the richer and more aloof the player population got, but i was always there to lend a noob a helping hand or give him a few thousand creds to get him on his feet if i saw he or she were struggling) i didnt beleive in charity but if someone was obviously new and if they asked politely and i didnt think they were scamming me.. i would help them as much as i could.

The crafting system for SWG was phenominal thats true.. but i believe the thing that the crafting system, combat system, PVP system, PVE, Entertainment in cantinas and nightclubs all together contributed to the MOST IMPORTANT thing that SWG had that other games lack and continue to lack...

a real and vibrant COMMUNITY. where people became lifelong friends simply because someone showed you where the smuggler trainer was in Nashal on Talus or invited you to a hunting group because you needed money but wouldnt accept a donation.. you WANTED to PLAY! not grind, not level, not show off your uber loots (although that sometimes did happen) you wanted to PLAY and live in this community of friends and enemies you made.

ask yourself this question.. people that also play WOW because i know there are alot of us here.

When was the last time in WOW that a total stranger - not a guild member - gave you for free, a weapon or armor that was viable and necessary to your progress? ... never?

now ask yourself how often that happened in SWG when you were a noob? all the time?

i rest my case.