Neither.

For me it was because the idea of having a Jedi was so alluring that most people (myself included) were willing to take themselves largely out of the main game to pursue their Jedi.

Grinding a Jedi usually meant staying away from other people, and from the community, for months on end. On smaller servers, there were hardly any ad-hoc hunting groups, like in the old days. The only time you would see other players was at buff spots, where people would get their buffs before going off on their own and grinding their Jedi again.

Jedi didn't use armour and made their own weapons, so did not take part in the crafting/merchant part of the game. In the height of Jedi-mania, it was more profitable for a player to be a Krayt pearl farmer than a high quality, respected weaponsmith or armoursmith.

For me, SWG was largely about community and a player-run economy. The Jedi system worked against both of these aspects.

Good points, Khargash.

Actually, good points to everyone.

Here's a summary of, what I think, are some of the better ideas to come out of this thread:

1 - give BH's something else to hunt, thus detracting from the overly bitter BH/Jedi rivalries
2 - enforce, through gameplay mechanics or otherwise, a sense that Jedi should be more secretive with their "gifts"
3 - create a way that the alpha class can be knocked down a peg, so a player wishing to be alpha can only remain so through vigilance.
4 - give NPCs an AI/survival buff of some sort so they are actually worth a damn when fighting Jedi and even just fully templated/buffed combat professions and loot groups.

Yeah Kargash brings up some good and undeniable points.

Robes at the least should have always been craftable. I might suggest perhaps only transformable into quasi-armor by Jedi CRAFTERS (so as to give special purpose to those FS trees), but the basic robes themselves should be tailor made.

I'd honestly like to see Jedi encouraged to wear something besides robes.

Robes are so cliche. The old Ben Kenobi was dressed more after the traditional fashion of a Tatooine native (wardrobe was very similar to Lars). Furthermore, Luke never felt a particular need to dress up in jedi attire. The point of the robes is that they allow flexibility of movement and identify the wearer as a jedi knight peacekeeper. Given the events of the timeline, it would be more appropriate for our jedi in hiding to dress more like Luke did.

just my 2 cents

No you do have a point Jordy my friend...

I'd still like to see clothing (any clothing) made into quasi-armor by Jedi Crafters only.

It would encourage at least some Jedi to be non-combat oriented Jedi. After all not all Jedi were combat-heavy. Some were scholars like Jocasta Nu.

And it would STILL force (no pun intended) Jedi characters to seek out others in the community for their wares.

Perhaps the same kind of thing would also work for lightsabers. You might get some initial skill to craft a basic lightsaber as a Jedi, but only a Jedi Weaponsmith could make really superior sabers.

Just a thought.

Permadeath to the jedi's!!! Humm.... What else.... Yes, pork n beans! Seriously though... Id like to see them dying permamently after 3 deaths to BH's, jedi's supposed to be a sight, a rare sight not an annoyance! I wont even try for a jedi if there isnt any risk of losing it, whats the point of it anyways... Cant have enough of jedi's?? Then go play jedi knight, thats what it think! And would do anyway... And getting BH's something else to hunt is a good idea in my opinion, that would ease the tension of jedi hunt! Something for exaple.... Um.... Smugglers? Ummm.... Rebels? Maybe they should lose something aswell for dying to the BH... But what? My head ache's today so... Cant think of anything.

I'd say premadeath is too harsh for a character the player has put so much effort just to get to square one, far more than any other profession.

Skill loss on the other hand and uber NPC hit squads for the imprudently immodest...

I agree with these sentiments... But jedi did rely on chef for PvP food and tailor for statted clothings if they chose not to wear the robes... But then again so did non-jedi.

After read all the post, I was thinking....

To control the number of Jedi in the server, just implement some algorithm that check the current number of Jedi/(Total) population, if that more then X, the next players cannot start the Jedi quest or some think like that.
So use some punish in N death in PVP, like the many said, to reduce that percent and new players can be jedi...
That way the server will always have the % of Jedi and not the K number of then, making a most balanced population.

Some one said that SWG is a little buggy, but that percent of Jedi in total population can be implemented in the DBS, just make the Jedi quest/* extend the "normal" quests, implementing that check in the DBS, the game for sure is coded in object oriented language (I had read C++ in some here...) , I don't think that will be a problem, causing more bugs.

That's my idea ....

A great idea for how a player "learn" the Jedi prof, that I have read,
star-wars-galaxies-gaming-ideas/jedi-master-t4544.html

I understand where you're coming from, but I can't agree.

To arbitrarily decide on a set number of Jedi on the server is going to seem pretty darn unfair to the vast majority who aren't the lucky few.

I don't even think it's the number of Jedi tha6's the particular problem.

I'd say it's the amount of Jedi OVERTNESS that's the problem.

Ben Kenobi was just another moisture farmer in the Mos Eisley cantina until he whipped out the lightsaber and sliced off that guy's arm. Had he not done so, he'd still have been just another thirsty customer from the crowd's perspective.

You can have a server with loads of Jedi and it shouldn't remotely be a problem IF the displays of Jedi activities, i.e. powers, saber use, etc. are kept to a bare minimum in the public's view. What they do in private, nobody knows. But as long as they don't do it in public, who knows any of them is a Jedi or not?

that makes a certain amount of sense. but what i dont want to see is going to grab a mission and bringing 5 people along and finding out that 4 out of the five strangers i invited along on a mission turn out to be jedi... thats not good either. because sooner or later even if they are hidden. there will simply be too many jedi if there isnt a difficult and totally random unlock, a very strict training structure for them and a system in place to limit their numbers as well as some kind of penalty for death.

making jedi hide out and stay away from the general population of players while grinding.. is a good idea only if the jedi population is low in the first place. but the higher the jedi population gets, will force people way from player towns and npc cities more and more when they all start unlocking. sooner or later every time we go out exploring we will see several jedi running around grinding things on their own in the wilderness as we pass by. thats just as bad as seeing hundreds of them in the cities.

i think that the best way to solve all these problems like i stated before is to limit their numbers. i liked the way that SOE started the jedi system. it was a secret unlock method.. except people figured out the secret.. and jedi started popping up. i say we also make a secret system.. but it should be TOTALLY random. so that even the devs who programmed it cant predict what needs to be done to unlock a jedi.

and if some people who want a jedi cant have one or will never do the random tasks assigned to him... thats tough. allowing a jedi for everyone who wants one is the exact problem many people have with the SOE jedi system during the Village and CU and was brought to a head in the NGE where you can start as one.

making the unlock criteria totally random (such as one of the requirements the computer picks out at random and assigns to one character is something like... "must wave to any other player 1000 times") not just mastering proffesions or collecting badges. if it is random like that. people will just play the game and HOPE beyond hope that they might unlock a jedi character.

as a trade off for how hard it will be under that system to unlock and then play a jedi. they should be truly made to be alpha and very powerful. that would require BH to be able to as well unlock an alpha version of BH (a specialized class of BH called Jedi Hunter) where they are permitted to only hunt jedi while regular BH's must hunt other proffesions.

On that last point, I respectfully but vehemently disagree.

The major problem with your "4 out of 5 strangers turn out to be Jedi" scenario is that those 4 of 5 strangers would be unlikely to be WILLING to join you, unless they WANT to get pounded by an NPC hit squad for kicks. Most Jedi you'd solicit would rather be hiding out so as to avoid poundage.

If Jedi are made REALLY alpha, all you do is practically ensure that everybody and his brother or sister will be trying for Jedi if they're interested in combat.

Given that none of the player Jedi will be Jedi from the Old Republic era, in their prime, then they should be SLIGHTLY better at best. That plus the uber NPC hit squads will help keep numbers down without the need for artificial limits.

Making Jedi a difficult haul to achieve for little reward and a virtual forced life in hiding will tend to weed out all but the most ardent player who is willing to play the "crazy old hermit" role appropriate to this place in the timeline.

Players who want to be uber and play in the open will have far better options than Jedi under this kind of system.

I just thought of a point to bring up. If it's going to be a limited selection for X amount of time, then what happens if someone gets picked at random to become a jedi and after that just doesn't play for a while. That would make eager players angry with that person and that they weren't chosen over them. Just trying to point out flaws to help.

that was just an idea as a trade off for how difficult we want to make it to become a jedi and play a jedi. all i was saying was that possibly some people would be very upset that the only reward for FINALLY unlocking, training forever, and living a life in hiding is just a plain old character that has the ability to use a lightsaber... but i was suggesting that some people would be pretty upset if the grind and near impossible unlock i suggested didnt give them something special is all. personally i would say "yes that is the only reward" if you ask for my personal opinion i say throw all the jedi out and lets get our game on. but we all agree that that is not an option. so i was trying to come up with something some people may like.

as for the 4 out of 5 arguement, your comment makes that idea even worse because it means that in my scenario and if there are lots of jedi hiding out. you are saying itll be harder and harder to even find people to play with because they wont group with others.. which also proves the point i was trying to make that the number of jedi is the problem no matter how they play. if community is the main part of this game that people enjoy... having a large number of players staying away from that community is kind of silly.

so i still stand by my opinion that it is the number of jedi that is the key problem. the lower that number the happier ill be. not matter how they play.

Ahhh not so...

Making Jedi a high risk for little reward profession encourages only those crazy people (and yeah I'd be one of them) REALLY committed to behaving like proper "crazy old hermit" Jedi in this timeframe to actually go for it. So you're bound to have MORE players to play with, not fewer.

It allows the profession itself to self-regulate a low number of Jedi.

Look at it this way. How many carbineers did you ever see in the old days? Few if any. And why? Because the profession was gimped to hell. Nobody needed to set artificial limits on the number of carbineers when the profession did a perfectly good job of doing so by itself. Jedi can be set up the same way.

Encourage all Jedi to keep public combat displays of Jediness to a minimum, and encourage a subset of the Jedi population to be non-combat oriented, and the apparent numbers will be low enough for most anyone's liking.