Thanks for the feedback L'aasin. Mostly I was looking at the first option. It seems to me that one of the problems with armor pre-cu is that it is accessible to armorsmiths in a tiered fashion, going from low grade to better. And as is true for most online games, people will always go for the best armors. I always thought the best solution would be along the lines of the first solution plan listed, so that all armor appearances would have an "max" version with good stats. However in that I'm not an armorsmith, I'll really be deferring to those people who will be playing the profession and getting into the nitty gritty details of crafting.

When it all comes down to it, variety in appearance has priority in my book.

And as to my question regarding resources, it was directed towards Variant I, as that is the one I'm most currently interested in now. It seems to be the most simple solution out there.

I thought so, but wanted to make sure.

In that variant, the resources needed by the Armorsmith would pretty much remain the same as they would be in the standard system. Since the main difference in that idea is based on the armor segments playing the primary role in specifying the armors base attributes by use of protective layers, the variety of resources wouldn't change at all. There would be a slight increase in the amount of resources needed for making layers, since you would ultimately need more layers to create armor. Due to the low resource requirement of armor layers, this increase in the quantity would not be excessive.

Sorry to revive an older post, but the mind was in gear...

I like some of the ideas you have here however, it still seems like a "tier" based system. Eventually everyone will be wearing whatever armor is "best", your system seems to give atleast three options rather then one. There will still be players out there that want to wear Bone Armor and what of our poor Ithorian and Wookiee friends? They only have three sets of armor to work with and will basicly be stuck with one choice. I really did like they way the CU went with making three different types of armor classes to serve different roles, just hated the stupid profession restrictions. I also like your idea of eliminating the need for specific armor segments and going to a standard "core" system. If I may present an alternative which will allow a fair balance across all sets of armor and allow each player to use his armor for the role it was intended.

Assault Armor: Heavy, Bulky, Used for CQB (Close Quarters Battle), High Encumbrance
Types: Chitin,Composite, Shocktrooper, Rebel Assault, Ithorian Sentinel, Kashyykian Hunting
Basic Assault Core: 30% kinetic, 20% energy (max craftable) + 3 element protective layers
Standard Assault Core: 50% kinetic, 40% energy (max craftable) + 4 element protective layers
Advanced Assault Core: 90% kinetic, 70% energy (max craftable) + 5 element protective layers

Reconnaissance Armor: Lightweight, Manuverable, Low Encumbrance
Types: Tantel, Ubese, Scout Trooper, Marine Recon, Ithorian Guardian, Kashyykian Ceremonial
Basic Reconnaissance Core: 30% energy, 20% kinetic (max craftable) + 1 element protective layers
Standard Reconnaissance Core: 50% energy, 40% kinetic (max craftable) + 2 element protective layers
Advanced Reconnaissance Core: 90% energy, 70% kinetic (max craftable) + 3 element protective layers

Battle Armor: General All-Around Protection, Medium Encumbrance
Types: Bone, Mabari, Padded, Stormtrooper, Rebel Battle, Ithorian Defender, Kashyykian Black Mountain
Basic Battle Core: 25% kinetic, 25% energy (max craftable) + 2 element protective layers
Standard Battle Core: 45% kinetic, 45% energy (max craftable) + 3 element protective layers
Advanced Battle Core: 80% kinetic, 80% energy (max craftable) + 4 element protective layers
(None of this in stone of course, just rough ideas)

As far as equalizing schematic resource requirements, I see two possibilities
1. Adjust the armor appearance schematics, keeping all the resource types the same just adding or subtracting the amounts so they are on a level playing field.

2. Leave the armor appearance schematics alone so lower "tier" armor will have a lower Durability. A set of Bone Armor may have the same resists that a set of Padded Armor has, it will however have a lower condition.

Vader,

Thanks for the input and reviving a dead thread (lol). Basically said, you're simply offering that we use something closely related to the CU's armor system (granted, Variant III borrows much from the CU system already). I agree that this was much better than the original system when it comes to actually varying the use of armor and dealing with encumbrance. To be honest with you, I wouldn't mind using this system again (I know I've already gotten flack for even offering a system that resembles the CU lol).

The one thing I don't really like about the CU system is the way armor types were defined by their resistance to one damage type or another (Assault = Kinetic, Recon = Energy, Battle = balanced, but less affective). This system made sense when combined with the CU's approach to damage types (2 primaries and 4 elemental secondaries), but I feel it would have worked better if the type of armor were more a reflection of it's protective abilities weighted with its encumbrance restrictions.

Instead of Recon armor being more resistant to energy and less resistant to kinetic and Assault being just the opposite, I feel Assault should simply offer more protection and Recon less. The benefits provided by the differing armors would then boil down to how the armor is being used and how encumbrance plays a role in this situation. It would also allow the professions innate armor bonuses to augment the differences in resistance; there by, balancing things naturally.

This would also allow for a differing in player preference by allowing the player to choose armor that better fits his/her playing style. If you have one commando that is more the stand fast (I don't mean to use this in the NGE sense of things), high visibility, heavy trooper type, he'd simply go for that which offers him more protection (movement encumbrance wouldn't affect him as much). Another commando might prefer the elusive, evasive, quick strike approach and would be best suited using armor that allows for this style of combat (lower over all protection, but better mobility).

The other sour spot in using the CU system's approach is that it does not lend itself very good to the pre-CU system as you've presented it. Since damage types in the pre-CU game are extremely varied and ultimately more useful, the idea of primary and secondary protective stats just doesn't work. This is easily rectified by adjusting the basic performance of the three armor types to include higher protective abilities to more than just one damage type, but that again just serves to pigeonhole the armor types. On the other hand, this situation is completely negated by use of a system such as mentioned in the previous paragraph.

The problem that comes with this "pigeonholing" of armor types into protective categories and not requiring professional certifications is that people will usually just opt for the more balanced solution. This can be seen in the NGE right now. Certifications have been removed, and the CU system is still in play (minus all encumbrances), so people go for the marginally weaker (in one aspect or another) yet far more balanced protection offered by Battle Armor.

Another thing that I really wanted to comment on though are the numbers used. This might actually be best discussed in another thread, but I'll leave that for another time. One thing which the CU armor system really addressed was the over powered 90%+ super armor. SOE tried to hide their "nurf" in armor resistances from us by opting for an arbitrary armor rating instead of simply using percentages, but the reduction of the overall protection was actually a much needed inclusion.

Personally, I feel that armor protection should never go over 70%. I feel that this leaves plenty of room for refined crafting and even slicing. I'm all for hard caps on things like this, instead of using the failed SOE system of hoping that the resource algorithms will provide a soft cap that will never be broken. We saw just how well this worked when people actually had 99 and 100% suits of Composite Armor. Yes I know that SOE did eventually cap this and scrapped that armor, but it did happen and for a while that armor did work. A proper system will keep this from happening in the first place.



Just a small addition to this: I'm sure someone has already brought up SOE's solution to the look alike problem in the NGE. They added the Appearance UI which allows you to equip any item of clothing/armor you wish as appearance only while allowing you to actually equip any sort of armor you wish for its actual protective abilities. Again, this is probably better discussed in another thread, but I thought I'd throw it out there.

It is a good system for offering variety, but it doesn't really address the weak armor system being used in game!

Here are some issues I still see.....

1. All the "Variant" options are still a "tier" based system with composite as the best option (some options give one or two others). Although some options close the gap a bit, there is still one type of armor that provides superior protection and that is the one everyone will be wearing. If the solution does not address the problem, then there really is no reason to make such a drastic change if eventually we will be back to the "Composite Clone Wars".

2. Our Ithorian and Wookiee friends only have three sets of armor to work with and will still be stuck with one type of armor to choose from in a "tier" based system.

To address the issues you brought up......

1. CU compared to Pre-CU style of damages: If I understand you correctly, you are saying one of the problems with the system I presented is there are more damage types in Pre-CU then in the CU. This is true however, there were only five additional damage protective layers available to an armorsmith. Those being Blast, Heat, Cold, Electric and Acid. The system I presented offers the ability to add up to five protective layers to a set of Advanced Assault Armor. I would be all for adding even more varied protective layers, Stun, Dizzy, Lightsaber, ex. As long as no one set of armor is able to resist "every" type of damage. Another Pre-CU issue that hasn't been addressed yet, was everyone in PvP used "Stun" weapons because there was no protection against it. Players should be able to customize their armor for what they believe they will be going up against and have different sets of armor for different types of play.

2. CU style Assault/Recon/Battle "Pigeonholing": If the division of armor into different types of armor such as Assault, Recon and Battle poses an issue as far as the 90%/70%, 70%/90%, 80%/80%, perhaps just have one set of Armor Cores. So instead of the armor being divided, all armor has the same ability of protection depending on the cores. Again lower "tier" armor on the Armorsmith tree would have lower overall condition.

Basic Armor Core: 25% Kinetic, 25% Energy (max craftable) + 2 protective layers
Standard Armor Core: 50% Kinetic, 50% Energy (max craftable) + 3 protective layers
Advanced Armor Core: 90% Kinetic, 90% Energy (max craftable) + 4 protective layers

3. High resist numbers used: I do agree with you that armor resist numbers were to high. I was only using numbers that would be similar to Pre-CU. The actual "hard cap" numbers would need to be left up to the community. I don't know if I would go as low as 70% "hard cap", but certainly 80% would be reasonable.

i dont really care too much about how the resists work. ive never paid much attention to that and all the armor i bought was used anyway and not top of the line.

the one thing about armor that i am mostly worried about is VARIETY! my problem with the CU armor system is that i was only able to wear certain armors. i felt the choices of armor types were limited enough without FURTHER limiting armor people can wear (plus the coolest looking armor was off limits to me)

if an armor type looks cool and a person wants to wear it... they should be able to wear it... and thats that. nevermind the resistances and encumberance. the player will have to decide for himself which armor BEST suits him in battle... but for sheer looks... i say we should still allow players to wear any type they feel like.. and we should add even more.

that was my main gripe with the CU system..


so whatever we decide here for armor. i just want to see variety there and be free to wear any armor i want. even if it is contrary to my playstyle.

So, I read through all of this (again xD) and have learned a lot about Armorsmithing just from reading this thread. When I first posted my idea (which is near-identical to Vader's), I was stuck in the CU way of dealing with things. I had forgotten that pre-CU had a wide variety of damage types, and, therefore, a much more complex (and in my opinion complexity is what made this game so cool) system for protection.

So here it is, my revised and revisited idea for creating variety:

The reason everyone used Comp armor was because it could make all 7 resists up to 90% effective, right? Well, lets just make it so that the different armors all protect against one (or two) of those damage types really well, but the rest are not so good. You can still even have tiers of protection v. encumbrance with this, even.

Separated in the 9 damage types (including LS)
Acid/Blast/Cold/Electricity/Energy/Heat/Kinetic/Lightsaber/Stun

Lower Tier [T1](Lower overall protection percentages, but lower encumbrance as well)
T1 might only be able to offer resists up to 30%, and only for one of the damage types. The other damage types may only be protected for up to 15%
Bone
Chitin
Mabari
Imperial Scout
Rebel Marine


Middle Tier (average defenses, average encumbrance)
T2 armor has a higher base defense percentage of 30%, with one or two damage types protected up to 45%. However, encumbrance is higher than in T1.
Tantel
Padded
Ubese
Marauder
Ithorian Guardian
Kashyyykian Ceremonial
Rebel Battle
Imperial Stormtrooper
Katarn


Upper Tier (High defenses, high encumbrance)
T3 armor offers the best baseline defenses, with up to 45% defense against most damage types. Against two or three damage types, it can provide up to 65% protection. The encumbrance is very high on these armors, and may require buffs to wear a full set.
Crusader
Imperial Shock Trooper
Rebel Assault
RIS
Bounty Hunter
Mandalorian
Composite
Ithorian Defender
Kashyyykian Black Mountain
Ithorian Sentinal
Kashyyykian Hunting


Not all of these armors have to be available, and indeed 8 of them weren't even available until the CU, and one (Crusader) not available until the NGE. I just put them all up because they have different appearances, and may be appealing to the players.

As with my earlier proposal, the materials used and the skill of the armor smith will determine the quality of the armor, and may affect it up to 10-15% in either direction. However, again with my previous suggestion, it should be virtually impossible to even approach 90% defenses, much less actually get there. Seriously, that's just ridiculous.

An example of some well-made Ubese armor would be
Ubese Armor
Acid - 32%
Blast - 33%
Cold - 33%
Electricity - 30%
Energy - 45%
Heat - 47%
Kinetic - 35%
Lightsaber - 5%
Stun - 30%

Notice that lightsaber defense is very low. Likely, without the armor smith using top-tier resources and components, and also being well skilled, this number would be at 0%. Only certain T3 armors, like RIS, Mandalorian and Bounty Hunter, should have any amount of respectable LS resist, and these armors should be very difficult and expensive to craft at all, much less well (as they were pre-CU).

Feel free to tear this idea to shreds =]